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Topic: Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a slippe (Read 1977 times) |
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Kitch
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Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a slippe
« on: May 7th, 2006, 9:13am » |
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Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a slippery slope.
Abortion legalized in 1967 by the court case of Rowe vs. Wade. This event established abortion upon demand in the fabric of the of society. This erased the laws that many states had in place restricting abortion and states that had it illegal. Abortion had it starts in the United States by men who didn’t want to be responsible for their mistress children. Susan B. Anthony a noted warrior of the woman suffrage movement in the states was deeply opposed to it. For she knew of the devastating effect it had on women especially in a world where women didn’t have the same rights as men. Rowe claimed that she had been raped and went around to several places trying to find a place to have an abortion and could not find anywhere to do it. She later admitted that she had not been raped and had only gone to one place to inquire about an abortion. When the clinic said they didn’t perform such procedures she went to her lawyer. A lawyer which had an abortion just a few months prior in Mexico. They came up with the number of 10,000 women die each year die in back alley abortions. The people that came up with that number have admitted that number was made up. The fact is most of the illegal abortions performed at this time were preformed by doctors, that barely got through med school. I am sure some women that did the notorious coat hanger attempt. Rowe has for years tried to have that notorious decision changed. The supreme court of the US decided that an unborn baby isn’t human. Just like when the Supreme Court decided that black men were not human with the Dread Scott case. Should the courts decide who is and who is not human? The record to me so far says no.
A philosopher once said” society can be judge upon how it treats it’s weakest of people.” What does abortion say about us today? Science says the signs of life are first they grow, they try to protect themselves, it eats, and reproduces. When the sperm connects with the egg there is a chemical wall that surrounds it to protect it from other sperm from entering the egg. Some times but extremely rare another sperm will get in prior to the chemical wall comes up. When that happens you get fraternal twins. Within hours the cells begin to divide and begin to reproduce themselves, taking the need nutrients from the mother’s blood stream. The embryo has its own DNA and even supplies the protective sack around him and the umbilical cord to connect to the uterus wall. Planned Parent Hood, one of the largest abortion providers in the United States commonly refers to the unborn babies as a collection of cells not much more then cancer. A quick note about planned parent hood, it was founded by a woman whose soul purpose was to get rid of inferior races. She started planned parent hood to rid the United States of Black babies, sadly they have been very successful. 40% of all abortions in the United States are performed on black women that make up 11% of the population. There are some other factors about her personality that I won’t go into.
A study in Germany has done test to see if babies feel pain, some doctors took some loud sounds and directed at a baby in her mothers womb. With high resolution sonogram monitor the babies response, the made not of the baby’s mouth quivering much like a baby would that was born as if it were crying. They did many other tests
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Kitch
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Re: Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a sl
« Reply #1 on: May 7th, 2006, 9:14am » |
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and determined that a baby in the womb as early as 18 days feels pain and responds trying to escape what causes him or her pain. The doctors came to the conclusion that the baby might even feel more pain then you and I do for they haven’t developed pain inhibitors like we have for in the womb they don’t require them like we do. I heard people say that the baby’s brain hasn’t developed enough to know anything and don’t realize what is going on. Yet that is a dangerous assumption for doctors have less then an elementary understanding of the mind and also your mind is developing continuously until you reach 20 years old. Also something else to consider most people that study child development recommends that parents read to their child while still in the womb it encourages learning in the unborn child. If the baby didn’t have a good mind that would be pointless but it does show considerable results. Tests have also proven that a new born baby minutes old recognizes the sounds of its immediate family by the particular responses.
Now let’s focus on the mother and what happens to her after an abortion, most women feel an overwhelming relieve in the immediate time however that tends to be short lived. A large majority of women end up going into deep depression from the abortion. Increasing their risk of committing suicide. They are almost 15 times more then likely to commit suicide to women who didn’t want the child but had the child anyways. Post abortive women are more likely to have ovarian cancer and breast cancer. Also more likely to have many other feminine problems. Some groups estimate that 3,000 women die a year from legalized abortion in the USA. They were keeping track of abortion related death in women until it reached 40,000. Since 1967. 162 Women died the first month abortion had been legalized in the United States. If abortion was just another medical procedure would the mortality rate be so high. I heard abortionist compare abortion to have an appendectomy. 45 million babies have been aborted since Rowe vs. Wade.
Another argument I hear for abortion that these children are not wanted and if the mother was to have the child it would just be abused. Most cases of children being abused are in fact upon children that were planned. They also will say crime is down because there are no unwanted children. Well we just displaced violent crime against big people to little people. One that takes the least thought that I have heard why should a woman have something she doesn’t want? A friend of yours goes to a councilor or pastor because her husband or boy friend doesn’t want her any more should the pastor or councilor kills her? Sounds ridiculous to me. Also about children unwanted, I don’t know about other countries but in the USA alone 2 million couples a year go over seas spending from 30,000 to a 100,000 dollars to get a baby a couple other million parents that can’t afford to do that get put on a waiting list for babies and some never get a child. If the babies were not wanted why would someone spend that much money? In Florida the sea turtle will lay its eggs upon the sands and it is illegal to crush these reptile eggs. Yet it is legal to kill an unborn baby.
I also heard of a court case in California I believe. This guy and a girl had an unplanned pregnancy. The mother was suing for child support, his defense for not paying child support was he didn’t help decide if the baby should be born aborted or
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Kitch
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Re: Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a sl
« Reply #2 on: May 7th, 2006, 9:14am » |
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adopted he had no choice in the matter why should he be held liable for her decision. If abortion is a legitimate choice, then is his defense legitimate. I believe if your going to play be prepared to pay.
As Christian the choice of life is clear the bible speaks clear about it. Yet it doesn’t use the word abortion.
Exodus 21:22-25 ESV
22) When men strive together (fight) and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit the her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judge determines.
23) But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life,
24) Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
25) Burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Notice the passage, doesn’t say if the woman wants to keep the child. It just gives you a set of guide lines if someone harms an unborn. Even though the thought of an unwanted birth in the ancient Jewish people is unlikely with how they valued children.
Psalms 82:3-4 ESV
3) Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4) Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
Is there any one with fewer defenses then the unborn?
Psalms 127:3
3) Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.
If a child is a reward from God, would you destroy a gift that someone else gives you. How much more should you value a gift from God, over that shirt from Mom?
There are more verses but I think these few make my point well. I heard of a pastor saying that abortion isn’t wrong because the baby would go to heaven. I do believe the aborted baby does go to heaven, yet to me that is like saying well you’re a Christian so it is alright to murder you. After all you will go to heaven.
Euthanasia:
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Kitch
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Re: Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a sl
« Reply #3 on: May 7th, 2006, 9:15am » |
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This topic is a little hazier then abortion however it is my opinion it is wrong. A little over a year ago a woman named Terri was diagnosed in a state of persistent vegetative state. Claiming that Terri would have wanted to die her husband convinced the judge to murder Terri by removing her feeding tube and denying water. Even though many people stated that Terri did react to them, and a friend of Terri’s from college made a statement quite contrary to What Terri’s husband claimed. Also with Terri being a devote Catholic it is unlikely that she would choose such action. This brought to the American attention of quality of life and the ideals of right to die. Terri’s husband and his lawyers made statements on how peaceful Terri passed. Yet anyone that has ever seen someone starve to death and denied water would know much better then that. They did keep her really drugged up on as she passed but how much good does that do? Other people that have had been diagnosed with this same condition have almost over night came out of this situation. Could it have happened for Terri? Granted that has been rare but if there is even the most remote chance is it not in the best interest of the person in question giving the chance to live. Medical sciences every day make discoveries and cures, I would hate to think that I put someone to death, and the next day, week, month, or year they come up with a cure for the problem. Some countries have already giving people the right to die and I read of a case I believe in the Netherlands. Where a woman went to a doctor and had him give her diagnoses of surosis of the liver under the pretence to get time off from her work. Then she went to another doctor and partitioned him to assist her in taken her life. The doctor complied with her desire, and at the autopsy he made the discovery that she didn’t have the condition she claimed. The doctor was grief stricken from his actions he took his own life. Some people say you should have the right to die instead of suffering, the next step I fear that people would say you have a duty to die if you become burden upon your family. So then anyone who becomes elderly or has a handicap becomes a target of this. Who would determine life is below the Quality of life required to keep their life.
Lets look at some history to see where this road leads, between the time Hitler came to power and the time he started world war II He gathered all the retarded, disabled, and handicap people and put them to death using a poisons gas, leading the way to the genocide of 6 million Jewish men, women and children. I fear that Euthanasia and giving people the choice to die is opening a Pandora’s Box we have seen opened once before.
Genesis 1:27
27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
(Man is made in the image of God so how can we murder the image of God!)
Psalms 139: 13-16
13) For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.
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Kitch
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Re: Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a sl
« Reply #4 on: May 7th, 2006, 9:15am » |
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14) I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well.
15) My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16) Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there were none of them.
Jeremiah 1:5
5) Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.
Jeremiah 18: 3-7
3) So I went down to the potter’s house and there he was working at his wheel.
4) And the vessel he was making of clay was spoiled in the potter’s hand, and he reworked it into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to do.
5) Then the word of the Lord came to me:
6) “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter has done? Declares the Lord. Behold like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel.
7) If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it,
God alone has the right to destroy his clay, and does so at his will not our will. So to take your own life you’re defying the will of the Master Potter. There are many other verses stating that we are not our own but the Lords to do as he pleases with us. His will be done and not ours.
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Wicked_Witch
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Re: Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a sl
« Reply #5 on: May 27th, 2006, 1:05pm » |
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I am catholic, and for that I strongly believe in the teachings of the church. But I am also a human being. I think euthanasia and abortion should be a case to case basis, not dependent on what was written in scriptures. Because if we base it on the thought that no one should take another's life until the time comes when God ended that person's life here on earth, what do we call those thousand of soldiers in the war taking lives of people they do not even know of have anything against? Would you let an unborn baby come to this world knowing she is infected with AIDS and she will be born a freak, maybe with no arms and legs? Would you care to choose a baby over a mother when it's inevitable that one of them will die?
And would you care to watch a love one continously suffer that it tore at your heart but you feel so helpless? Will you let them suffer everyday knowing that person is dying anyway? And when they themselves beg you to help them end their sufferings?
Times are changing. I think we have to give allowances to some things that have gone out of human control. God is great, He will understand and forgive.
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| « Last Edit: May 27th, 2006, 1:07pm by Wicked_Witch » |
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cuddlydereksun
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Re: Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a sl
« Reply #6 on: May 27th, 2006, 10:25pm » |
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"thou shall not kill" its plain and simple!! ive found the best churches are non-donominational,full gosphel, and baptism by fire! their are millions of people alive that are suffering(goto amazon and see for yourself) when its time for god to take them he will!! christ suffered on the cross so any amount of suffering he had and his cause was way greater then any suffering we had or have! as far as the wars and killings. read the bible and see why gods armys killed. they were all against him! as far as innocent bystanders well if they were for god at the time of their death they have nothing to worry about!! he marytr's also! nuff said peace out! 
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Kitch
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Re: Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a sl
« Reply #7 on: May 28th, 2006, 10:02am » |
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Wicked well see that is a human secular opinion however as Christ said how can you call me Lord and not do what I command...And actually is says thou shall not Murder in the orginal text... but killing the unborn is murder
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Wicked_Witch
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Re: Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a sl
« Reply #8 on: May 29th, 2006, 9:05am » |
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So would you rather let an unborn child live knowing she's infected with Aids and there's a big possibility that she will be born a freak and that she will be ridiculed and humiliated and suffer and everything? Would you rather choose to let a baby live and the mother dies if it's necessary to make a choice? Life is a matter of choice. Sometimes it's not in God hands' anymore. The only thing we can do sometimes is ask for forgiveness because we are humans. God is God. He has made all those sacrifices because He is God. He knows that in the end his Father will save him. But we are mere mortals, when we die, we remain dead. Do you think you can do all the things He did just to save humankind? Will you travel for miles and preach? Will you be willing to go from place to place and convince people to change their evil ways? Would you even be willing to take in a stranger and give him food and shelter? Would you be willing to embrace a leper? We talk big of christianity, of God's teachings. But listening and believing and actually putting it into practice is easier said than done. Especially when you are surrounded by people who constantly challenge your faith in humankind. Sometimes out of so much love for another being, we do something that is beyond acceptance. In this life and age, everything is possible, you yourself said that. Now it's been possible to create life like test tube babies. If we can create, why can't we take life also? Like I said, it is a case to case basis. Do we hate those soldiers for killing? No, sometimes we even give them a hearty welcome, even cheer them and encourage them to kill more. It's always a tough decision to make but when is life easy? Sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do regardless of Faith.
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| « Last Edit: May 29th, 2006, 9:15am by Wicked_Witch » |
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Gracia
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Re: Abortion and Euthanasia heated debates or a sl
« Reply #9 on: May 29th, 2006, 12:25pm » |
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I think it's the belief of the person concern that matters most. How deep is his/her faith in God, and how he/she take it to heart the commandments of the Lord. For me, everyone has the right to live when life is there and no one has the right to cut the life to save her/him from misery.
God give us sound mind to descern the difficulties of life. We always have choices and alternatives too. If we tend to choose the wrong ones, then let's be ready for the consequences. Sometimes, the reason to cut off is because we're afraid if we can handle it, or are we able to finance it, so many ifs and buts.....so instead of facing the real problem, we tried to make assumptions, basically to save ourselves from trouble, but not to the fetus or the one whos' suffering. Speaking on behalf of them is not for me. Life's test is difficult, sometimes beyond our endurance. If we have enough faith and belief in God, we survive, no matter how hard, we survive. To those individuals who were given such uncurable diseases, God provide them strength and i'm sure they have choices too either to stop it or live with it. Most of them prefer to enjoy regardless of how limited their ways and means be.
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